This actually stems from a debate on another forum (non-LEO related) but I wanted to get some opinions/information on the subject.

This is basically the start of the debate.

"Let's start by discussing whether there is a difference between saying that someone in the military must be willing to "kill someone on command" (as opposed to alternative phrasing such as "shoot to protect").

Also, what role do and can a pacifist play in the military?

I think using the word "shoot" instead of "kill" is dishonest if I understand the training soldiers receive. My understanding is that if you're going to shoot someone you should do it to kill them. Aim for a kill. Is this not true? Are soldiers trained to deliver non-lethal shots in combat?"

Anyone care to throw some opinions out on this? I'm not and have never been in the military so I can't comment on training and such that is given or the mentality that is driven into it.

[ida40dj]

military is taught the same as police in that your trained to aim for the largest target which is center mass. same principle as law enforcement stop the enemys threat. I was in the Marine Corps 86-90 infantry, or as we always said 0311 bullet stopper.

[Virginian]

"Kill someone on command" sounds like someone trying to push that soldiers and Marines are mindless killers that will execute anyone if given the order. People in the military know that they only have to obey lawful orders, which doesn't include killing civilians or unarmed/surrendering enemy combatants. If you can drop your enemy with any kind of shot that results in them not being able to take further aggressive action against anyone, you've done all you need to do concerning them.

Disclaimer - I'm not military, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Here's another question to add to it. The whole debate stemmed from a poverty debate.

If someone isn't willing to kill is military not a viable option for them to volunteer for then?

[timatoe127]

I think, it's no different than being an LEO as far as, you always hope you don't have to kill someone, but you have to know you can if you have to. If someone is absolutely incapable of killing, they put everyone around them at risk, whether they are military or LEO. My .02

[Virginian]

Don't join the Marines. "Every Marine a rifleman" is their point of view. If you aren't willing to pick up a gun when needed, be a chaplain. Or a civilian.

Here's where the debate was. Basically thread #1 started out with this "On CNN yesterday they were showing footage of President Bush from a year ago, after Katrina hit, vowing to do something about the poverty in the New Orleans area. Tell me, what can the government really do about poverty? Do you think that almost anybody can get out of poverty if they put their minds to it, or is it just something that we should just accept as a fact of life?"

And someone responded that people can come out of it from different means including the military, get paid, and get paid for an education. But someone else responded that in order to do that you have to be able to "kill on command" so even the military has some discrimination in whether you meet requirements so basically yes, the military can help one come out of poverty, but not everyone across the board. Which in turn created thread #2 because I jumped on said posters ass about "kill on command."

Just in case y'all wanted to know the background. I bet you all wish you were on my debate board.

[Virginian]

The military also has physical, education and criminal background requirements.

If people want to get out of poverty, they have to be willing to work. Otherwise they can continue barely getting by while doing as little as possible, and I only feel sorry for those without the mental capacity or physical ability to help themselves.

Originally Posted by Virginian

If people want to get out of poverty, they have to be willing to work. Otherwise they can continue barely getting by while doing as little as possible, and I only feel sorry for those without the mental capacity or physical ability to help themselves.

Hey, hey, hey... I didn't ask for your opinion on the poverty thing. I have my other debate forum for that.

I was just making sure I was correct in my military training assumptions to fully articulate my opinion.

[Virginian]

Sorry, I'm a debate whore

Originally Posted by Virginian

Sorry, I'm a debate whore

I know you are. I figured you'd be jealous. My girly forum has debates on EVERYTHING and it's pretty active too. The poverty thread was 15 pages (15 post/page) long (in 2 days).

[Virginian]

Girly forum =

They do get pretty frickin' snarky. The good thing though is for the most part, even the ones with differing opinions get along elsewhere still. They just know that they won't agree in the debate area until pigs fly.

[Virginian]

It can get pretty frustrating when you can't get what seems like simple logic across to someone with a strong opinion based on emotions. But the rest of marriage is pretty good.

What were we talking about again?

Originally Posted by Virginian

It can get pretty frustrating when you can't get what seems like simple logic across to someone with a strong opinion based on emotions. But the rest of marriage is pretty good.

What were we talking about again?

I have no idea.

[Virginian]

Wait, I remember - women are crazy

Originally Posted by Virginian

Wait, I remember - women are crazy

That's right. Which causes the whole family to go into poverty because the wife can't get a job because she's crazy, although on disability and the husband can't keep a job because of the drug problem he's acquired in order to put up with the crazy bitch wife and neither can get in the military due to the aforementioned issues. Thank goodness for government cheese... which I hear makes the BEST sandwiches.

[Virginian]

Originally Posted by katiemh

That's right. Which causes the whole family to go into poverty because the wife can't get a job because she's crazy, although on disability and the husband can't keep a job because of the drug problem he's acquired in order to put up with the crazy bitch wife and neither can get in the military due to the aforementioned issues. Thank goodness for government cheese... which I hear makes the BEST sandwiches.

Funniest thing I've read all week

Originally Posted by Virginian

Funniest thing I've read all week

I think I'm flattered, seeing as how it's Thursday. Although evidently you've had quite the boring week.

[Virginian]

Originally Posted by katiemh

I think I'm flattered, seeing as how it's Thursday. Although evidently you've had quite the boring week.

Nah it hasn't been that bad really! I am looking forward to leaving this bank vault though. I was pretty fortunate they have a ventilation system when I got locked in, but the one week timed delay lock on the door and the internet filters that prevented me from viewing anything except this one thread have been somewhat of a downer

Anyone got a sammich?